Hey, everybody. It’s been a while since I did a “manosphere” post, but I had some conversations with a couple folks a little while ago and turned them into an essay, x-posted to some places on Reddit. I rather like it, so here you go:
A little while ago I was talking to someone about that MGTOW stuff, and he asked, “what’s wrong with MGTOW? It’s just men not getting married, right? Why do you care so much if guys want to remain single?” It’s a typical response from people who’ve only heard of that stuff–a lot of guys haven’t seen the weirdness most of us have experienced, so they tend to think MGTOW and associated scenes are better than they actually are.
My response was this: “There’s absolutely nothing wrong with avoiding dating and relationships and all that. I’m happy being single and I avoid relationships too. The problem with MGTOW is that it piles up a ton of bullshit on top of what should be a pretty cool idea.”
My guy hadn’t heard any of that before and asked me to tell him about it. I did, and he quickly saw my point. You’ve probably heard of some of this stuff too: Nacho Vidal blowing up the old MGTOW forums (which people donated to), “Red Pill Coin” turning out to be a scam, MGTOWs accusing one another of being pedophiles, Barbarosssaaa and Niko Choski taking crap from their own fans, and especially Niko leaving the MGTOW scene because of another guy, CS MGTOW, getting straight-up doxxed by some kook (Messenger or something) who actually got to his phone. And that’s not even going into the guys I’ve seen threatening violence on MGTOW websites, the creepy-ass fetishists, all that nonsense. Yeah, after hearing about that, the fellow I was talking to saw my point about MGTOW.
But that got me thinking, why is it that MGTOW attracts all sorts of weird bad actors and their attendant ridiculous drama? We’ve all talked about how dumb it is for people “going their own way” to hate on women 24/7. But that got me thinking that there are a couple of other reasons MGTOW is *particularly* susceptible to both dysfunctional ideological extremism *and* basic incessant backstabbing among its members.
It seems to me a lot of weird drama and cult nonsense starts out with a good idea–in this case, “focus on yourself, it’s OK to be single, and base your self-worth on things other than external validation.” It’s when people start trying to make themselves “leaders” and make money off of it that it gets cancerous. Wouldn’t it be an easy way to scam people? When some guy starts saying, “Hey, men! You need to think for yourself and make your own value! That’s why you need to donate to my forums and buy my books!” isn’t that suspicious? When stuff like that starts to happen, you have self-appointed gurus more interested in self-aggrandizement and making money instead of actually going their own way.
This is why MGTOWs tend to cultivate resentment towards women and “feminism” instead of simple detachment and actually going one’s own way. If a guy actually DOES go his own way and stops caring about women–i.e, he doesn’t even hate them at all, just concentrates on his own interests and happiness–why would he donate to some MGTOW youtuber or buy MGTOW books? He’d spend his time and money on things he actually enjoys instead of some rando’s Patreon or another self-published “Why Women Suck” screed on Amazon. Thus, many MGTOWs have a vested financial interest in ensuring men don’t *actually* go their own way.
It’s also why there’s so much doxxing and backbiting. Since many MGTOWs are in it for themselves and just want to take advantage of people, it’s no surprise that many prominent MGTOWs turn out to be phonies and scumbags. Isn’t it an easy way to scam people? When some guy starts saying, “Hey, men! You need to think for yourself and make your own value! That’s why you need to donate to my forums and buy my books!” isn’t that suspicious? When stuff like that starts to happen, you have self-appointed gurus more interested in self-aggrandizement and making money instead of actually going their own way. And these guys have financial incentives to push out other MGTOW content creators–the more people that donate to some other guy’s Patreon, the less they’ll have to give to yours. Thus, we see the stupid e-beefs and constant internecine conflict among those people.
I also think there are a couple of reasons MGTOW types are particularly vulnerable to scams and doxxing. First, say someone’s been divorced, and they go on MGTOW forums to talk about it–the personal information they reveal can help scammers and other types dox them and stuff like that. Meanwhile, for forums/subreddits on other topics, like videogame forums or other entertainment or women-unrelated subreddits in general, people don’t necessarily talk about their personal lives or relationships as much or as openly. Thus, while it’s always wise to be cautious, forums on just about any topic other than one’s bad experiences with women will have fewer people talking about their intimate lives, which means it’s usually harder for scammers to get a hold of incriminating or revealing info.
The other thing is the fact that so many guys are attracted to MGTOW when they’re angry after being burned by a relationship. When somebody’s pissed off and angry, they can’t think straight, which makes them a much easier mark for opportunists. Some youtube scam artist can say, “Hey, don’t relationships suck? Aren’t you angry? I know just how you feel, brother!” and work up a rapport with pissed-off guys, then once he’s won their trust, start asking them for more and more–“Hey, subscribe to my channel! Then, help me take down this other guy’s channel! Then, buy my book/pay for my Red Pill Coins or whatever!” By the time the unfortunate audience has moved out of the anger phase and realized they haven’t actually gained anything, the scammer already has their money.
So, conclusion? There are some pretty significant and inherent structural reasons MGTOW in general has been and probably will be mired in drama, hatred, and other bullshit. Any sensible man, including and especially happily single ones, would do well to avoid that scene. But most of us here probably knew that, eh? :p