On a trip at the moment and a bit busy, my friends, so this Manosphere Monday’s gonna be pretty quick. Here’s a collection of amusing quotes I’ve gathered from all across the Internet which capture most of my feelings about the whole manosphere/MGTOW scene. Some of them are from 4chan’s /r9k/ and /pol/ boards, which are full of manosphere/MGTOW types, but every now and then someone makes a cogent critique of them rather than just repeating what they say. So, without further ado, here’s some stuff that I consider both funny and on-point, at least when it comes to those guys:
“> women are awful and I want nothing to do with them
> gotta check my tfw no gf thread on /r9k/
> then my looks are all that matters thread on LoveShy
> then my divorce law thread on Men Going Their Own Way
Misogynists are stupid not because they hate women, but because they don’t follow their ideas to their natural conclusions – to the extent you don’t have to deal with women, ignore them.
It’s ridiculous, really, that these communities bill themselves as safe havens where men can escape women, and then, as soon as you hit the front page, all anyone wants to talk about is women.”
“I don’t ascribe any merit to the ‘movement’ though. It’s a personal journey for me, not a political statement. I live in an era of relative peace, and entertainment technology is one of our favorite new developments as a society. It’s a great time to do whatever the fuck you want, in my opinion. Why shit up a pure idea like that with hatred towards the opposite sex? “
“I’m not going to read a forum where we all whine about basketball existing because we weren’t born 7 feet tall, I’m just going to accept that it will never be a part of my life and move on to other shit.”
“Isn’t half of the lifestyle of MGTOW just whining about women though? Like most people do whatever they want anyway, especially men. It’s just part of what they want is love and companionship. Also you can’t be MGTOW and not associate with the political statement. Call it something else if you’re just a normal guy who doesn’t chase women. Maybe “unavailable” or “career-oriented” or something.“
–All quotes from http://archive.heinessen.com/r9k/thread/S10796181
“I call it like i see it – I’ve never met anyone seriously advocating MGTOW who wasn’t looking for a way to escape a traumatic history with women.
Furthermore, I’ve never seen embracing this mindset alter anyone’s behavior in any meaningful way – they may claim to not care about women and sex, but the reality is that they talk about it all the time, nonstop, just with a different set of jargon.
I feel safe in suspecting that [anyone] who feels the need to photoshop red pills into charts and come up with a systematic terminology for their perceived oppression is not the kind of person who has transcended his social and sexual limits and moved on with his life. “
“it sounds exactly like the male version of obnoxious internet feminism except even stupider because theres no history behind it and theyre male and should know better“
“Like every social movement, it’s based on a valid concern that is immediately overwhelmed by the whining and attention-grabbing of its more vocal members.“
“I find it odd that these guys want to dismiss women from their lives, but every one of them that I’ve heard from goes on and on about women this, women that. The philosophy is supposed to be about doing what you want, but clearly some of them want to be with women and are only behaving in a way that contradicts social expectations, rather than ignores them.“
“The idea is good, having it as a movement/label is stupid. What does it lead to other than whining and bad publicity? I don’t need the support of MRAs and PUAs in order to chill out, watch anime and not get married.“
–All quotes from http://archive.heinessen.com/r9k/thread/S10659329
“>What is your opinion on the worldwide effort being made by men to live a blissful life with no concerns
I didn’t know that men bitching about women on the internet and crying about their missing foreskins with other unemployable dudes had anything to do with bliss. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
You’d think that if they were serious about living apart from women and going their own way there’d be at least one men’s only homestead that you could buy a small cabin on for a few thousand bucks and live in exchange for farm labor, but I guess crying about how its unfair that women don’t love chubby manlets is easier than actually going your own way.”
“It’s not taboo, just kinda gay.
Women do have those clubs and support groups, and many men and other women look down on them as being weak. When you make a group to reinforce ideas about individuality it shouldn’t surprise when people call you a faggot for it.”
“Ive yet to run into any self proclaimed member of the “manosphere” who can even express a coherent idea through their weird angry ranting.
Maybe there is something behind all the buzzwords and general butthurt, and maybe the homeless guy outside the liqour store is actually trying to express some great revolution in neuroscience when he tells me about the brain ghosts who are stealing his erections.
We will never know.”
“Men going their own way” should go whole hog and join a religious community, or become serious scholars of something difficult, like ancient Anglo-Saxon poetry or something.
There have always been men in the West who “went their own way.” The thing is, they used to be respectable, interesting, occasionally even holy people. Now they just make a lot of cheap, hyperbolic noise on websites with poor graphic design.”
–From Master Dogen at http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/a-traditionalist-manifesto/
“I can be pissed at women and a lot of their bullshit rationalizations. However, I can’t hate them. To me focusing on something you hate is a waste of energy. If you hate women so much, then why blog about them, and how to sleep with them. Why not post about a hobby or something?”
“Basically fascism goes like this: “There is a problem with this world, and it’s caused by _________________.”
Fill in the blank with your “ism” of choice. Feminism, communism, judaism, multiculturalism … whatever. The first thing you need to do is convince people there’s a problem. Then you lay the blame. Then you fire up the ovens.”
“Any aware man “goes his own way”. But the MGTOW movement, judging from the forums and YouTube channels I’ve seen espousing this label, is full of celibate video-game players who have basically been squeezed out of the both the economic and sexual marketplaces. Maybe I’m just going my own way to such an extent that I’m not interested in any label. I certainly don’t care whether I’m any part of any movement that wants to bring down the evil edifice of society one masturbatory afternoon at a time.”
“I just think it’s loserdom to obsess over group/identity politics. Notice I don’t spend much time bashing women, either.”
–Danger & Play, https://twitter.com/PlayDangerously/status/304455816906432512
“Somalia is the most libertarian country in the world. I don’t see guys rushing to move there.”
–Danger & Play, https://twitter.com/PlayDangerously/status/306504278363762688
I have to wonder why no one in MGTOW can keep to the subject. Pick any random thread and you will find someone start going off the reservation of a speech against a religion or another unasked for soapbox sermon on some oddball subject. Often, many will randomly insert his “brilliant” assertion that civilization will collapse in ten years.
Since so many join MGTOW based on being wrong in the past, why does everyone act like they are right all the time? It is amazing! The egotism never died. It just shifted into new forms. This would explain why someone can’t keep to the subject of MGTOW and instead must start bashing a religion, bashing a country, or bashing something else. One can be right on something and be wrong on other things. But MGTOW do not see that. They act like they have suddenly become right on everything (so they become vocal on it).
If we were wrong in the past, and it damaged our lives (such as getting married to a fiend), why do we strut around as if we have such ‘wisdom’? If we were so wrong once, we could be wrong again. Yet, this reservation is nowhere to be found in MGTOW. Every man has his own pet theories. The dogs slip their leash and begin to ravage the good content.
For as much as we mock feminists for being negative, for getting with women to talk bad about men, it is becoming more and more clear that MGTOW is becoming more like the mirror image. Behavior by behavior, a MGTOW male acts very similar to a feminist in lifestyle and habit. You begin to live alone, have meetings with guys to ‘talk bad about women’ (to ease existential pains), and write bad essays.
–All of these are from Pook’s Mill, specifically this article:
none of the forums really have anything new to say, usually it’s just people talking about how their bachelor life is great, game, how many women they’ve knocked up and graphic details of it (ugh), divorce stories, how women are, the shaming language guide, etc. That’s fine when you start, but it gets repetitive.
Also seeing how the “brotherhood” is so easily forgotten when there’s an internal dispute and the fanaticism/iron fist rule evident in some communities shows that these places are just a house of cards in most cases.
I’ve mellowed, I no longer get as fired up over the subject as I used to. I’m moving on but I’m not discarding what I’ve learned either. I call it Beyond MGTOW.
Blog is down, unfortunately
“Funnily enough though, if you look at my life, functionally I’m probably pretty close to the description of a MGHOW. But it’s something that’s a natural consequence of simply being highly independent, borderline asexual, averse to any kind of heteronormative relationship mind games, as well as any kind of paradigm which treats people as means to ends in relationships.
Amazingly enough, when you do that, you actually meet awesome women. But of course, the mutual sense of independence means that the sorts of relationships you have with them aren’t going to run to the usual scripts anyway. And that’s why I don’t identify with MGTOW. The entire referential framework is different: MGTOW are bitter at the system – but they still use it as a reference point to how they wish things were – they haven’t really stepped right away from it, to the point where its existence is basically irrelevant to their relationship ideals (or lack thereof?).”
–Kitty Spoon Train , here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/91315-never-realised-but-mgtow-is-actually-a-logical-outflow-of-ace/
“Relax, I’m not the one who’s angry at the world… rather, it’s MGTOW (men going their own way) who tend to be angry at the world.
“A couple of years ago, I joined a MGTOW board because a few of them happen to be pretty good in the techie dept, but now I think that was a mistake. Apparently to become fully accepted by the MGTOW community, you have to be part of a hive mind in which you’re sexually frustrated, you’re always the victim, and you must never, ever work on improving your quality of life (so you can always have plenty to bitch about). Life, to MGTOW, is one big gripefest.
Oh, and MGTOW absolutely LOVE to blame all their woes on “liberals” (when in fact, most of the things they complain about happen to them as a result of their own bad decisions, usually the result of being narrow minded and bull headed). They really think Ronald Reagan deserves to have his face carved onto Mount Rushmore.
Like the other day, I half-jokingly posted a new thread on a MGTOW board in which I gave instructions in how to piss off statists. Well, all the guys who read that thread were like, “yeah, dog pile on the baaaaad liberals! Yeah, yeah!” UNTIL… I replied that conservatives can be statist assholes too, and the tone of all the guys on that thread immediately soured. It was both sad and funny the way they declared me persona non grata and accused me of living in a fantasy world, but they proved my point.
Such an attitude is by no means limited to men. My cousin, who is 3 years older than me and is very smart and attractive, moved to a heavily conservative area of the state a couple of years ago, and when she called me to ask how things were going last Christmas, her familiar optimistic tone had changed to something very like that of the MGTOW on that board—she complained about how liberals, Democrats, welfare mamas, Mexicans, and blacks were making her life miserable (her neck had turned as red as Santa’s suit). Needless to say, I felt pretty relieved once it was time to hang up.
I think part of the problem in this country is that we just have a huge percentage of people who believe everyone else is to blame for their misfortunes but themselves: apparently there’s this huge phantom section of the population who really has it in for us.”
–From Woodworker1968, http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/94357-angry-at-the-world/
“Look at it this way, if you’re self aware enough to be mad at me because you think I’m too kind to women, then you’re self aware enough that you don’t really need to actually read unkind words from me about women. What else do you need to read?
Beta men who improve themselves enough to attract women aren’t angrily reading or writing about how terrible women are on the internet for the most part (they can leave that to the long-time alphas). I’m not saying that men who criticize women are unlikely to “get laid” as the accusation often goes, but rather that you’re wasting your time chasing the women-critical dragon.
It used to be that being critical of women on a manosphere blog was a way to shock men out of their pedestalization of women. Outside of the manosphere, any criticism of women is quickly shut down as sexist hate speech, after all, so it was an effective tool. But now it seems that saying negative crap about women only serves to fuel anger or antipathy. And that’s it, it barely serves a useful purpose.
If you’re that angry, take a break from the internet and do something every day to improve yourself. There may be valid criticisms of women that need to be made on the internet, and some day you can be that hero to men, but for now it’s probably a good idea to stop wasting your time.
“As far as I can see, “hypergamy” seems to mean “the desire of women to date men who aren’t complete losers like me”.
–From Filin de Blanc, here: http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=92218
“1. One type of MGTOW sacrifice emotional fulfillment from others and focus their energy on mathematical, revolutionary and scientific pursuits to achieve highest level of excellence.
2. Second type of MGTOW sacrifice emotional fulfillment from others and focus their energy on making anti-woman and anti-feminist Youtube videos.
In a way MGTOWs prove that the male intelligence is indeed mare variable than female.
“Quite similar to what I was going to say. MGTOWs seem basically the Men’s Rights equivalent of Separatist Radfems.
Look, if someone – male or female – is disgusted with society and wants to opt out, live off the grid, move to Turkey, whatever, I say let them. If they think partnering with and committing to a member of the opposite sex is an arrangement akin to slavery, I’d say they’d be well advised to avoid it.
It’s when they shake their fists at society and scream, “You’ll be sorry when I’m gone!” that they jump the shark for me.
Neither group will ever be large enough for their “Going Galt” to have any real impact. Or, as Henry Kissinger once said, “No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there’s too much fraternizing with the enemy.”
“Except that The Grasseaters of Japan spent less time bitching about women,unlike the MGTOWs”
“I’ve been thinking about this post a lot and checked out Heartiste’s site, on the scale of “problems black men need to be addressing,” do you really think unchecked hypergamy of many black women ranks up there with systematic racism?…Why on earth should black men align or even engage with white racists? That’s like the rooster aligning with KFC to get the hens under control. In the parlance of the “manosphere” that’s not alpha. People are free to like who they like, hate who they like, establish any belief system they like, I agree wholeheartedly with that and I’m not going to wring hands because white men I share ideas with on the nature of male/female relations also have some ideas I don’t like about race. Let them be.
What I’m not doing though is trying to counsel psuedo-intellectual bigots to tamp down their racist ideas so we can all work together.”
Finally, this entire article is worth reading (archived, fortunately): http://web.archive.org/web/20130605115318/http://reesarch.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/the-fate-of-the-manosphere/
I might link back to a lot of these pieces in a future post on the manosphere…which will come next month. Till then, have fun with these; on Friday it’s back to my writing log, or maybe another post on Dark Souls 😀